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Esme Fae's avatar

In my lifetime, I have seen the change from my 1970s childhood (when we ate what would be considered an objectively crappy diet by modern standards but had lower rates of obesity) to today, when there is much more interest and emphasis on health and diet yet people are fatter than ever.

My observations:

1. When I was a child, groceries were proportionately more expensive than they are today. We ate a lot of canned vegetables, because they were cheaper. We also ate a lot of stuff like tuna noodle casserole (made with Campbell's soup), American chop suey (once again, hamburger and noodles held together with condensed soup), baloney sandwiches, grilled cheese, hot dogs, etc.. We only had salads and fresh veggies in the summer, when we grew them in our garden and when they were relatively cheap at the market. My mom was a good cook and made homemade soups and chilis, she made a few Hungarian specialties from time to time, but as a working mom our diet was heavy on the casserole-and-crockpot meals.

2. Snacking was discouraged. It was believed that snacks caused tooth decay and spoiled your appetite for dinner. I remember in the late '80s when some study showed that "grazers" were thinner than those who ate three square meals, and people interpreted this as a license to snack (usually in addition to the three square meals). The snack industry was happy to help out with an explosion of new and delightful snack foods.

3. I recall sugar being the "bad" food when I was a child. We were sometimes allowed to have Kool-Aid, but our moms were stingy with the sugar so it usually tasted kind of bad. If you were allowed to have cookies after school, it was two very small cookies washed down with a glass of milk. More than that would "give you cavities" and more importantly, "spoil your appetite". Naughty children were labeled "hyperactive" and it was usually blamed on sugar and bad parenting. At some point in the '80s, there was the change in emphasis that it was actually dietary fat that caused obesity, with the corresponding explosion in fat-free (but very sugary) processed foods.

4. When my mom passed away and I was clearing out her house, I realized her dinner plates (1950's and 1960's vintage) were the size of modern luncheon plates. Her "juice glasses" held about 4 oz. Her large classes were 8 oz. Compare that to modern 12-16 oz. glasses. Her coffee cups held 4 oz, whereas some of my modern coffee mugs hold 16 oz.! Thus, our portion sizes were SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than those today.

5. Eating out was expensive, so we only did it on special occasions. Also, there were simply not the variety of restaurants that there are today. I lived in a large town (pop. 60K) in a major metropolitan area, but our dining out options were fairly limited: pizza/Italian, Chinese, diner, steakhouse, deli, or (if you were rich and fancy) the French restaurant. We didn't get a fast food restaurant in town until 1980. Nowadays, I live in a small town (pop. 6,500) but within a 10 mile range I can eat Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Lebanese, Mexican, Spanish, Greek...in addition to the basic American and Italian fare. The small, locally-owned shops and businesses of my youth are all gone, but a plethora of tasty ethnic restaurants have replaced them.

6. It was normal for kids to play outside, ride bikes, walk to school, etc.. And we wanted to be outside, because there was nothing interesting inside - afternoon TV was all soap operas or religious shows, there was no internet or video games, and if you were inside your parents would make you do chores. That is definitely not the case any more. My kids (early 2000s) had an analog childhood, but we were fighting the trend by not having cable or allowing them to use the computer.

7. Everyday living required more moving around. My parents had only one car until the mid-70's, so my mom and I walked to do errands during the day. Many of the older ladies in our neighborhood did not drive; and many families had only one car so it was normal to walk to the store, to the post office, to the pharmacy. As a teen, I thought nothing of walking 4 miles to the beach every day in the summer. And we would walk MILES to the party spot on the weekend, only to find the cops had kicked everyone out already and we'd have to walk around town looking for our friends to hang out with them. I walked so much that I regularly wore out the soles of my shoes.

8. Even office jobs required more walking around. When I started working at a corporate job in 1990, I had to walk around the building to pass out memos, make copies, use the fax machine, get office supplies - even just asking someone a question involved getting up off my butt and walking downstairs to Accounting or whatever. Nowadays, I work from home and I could literally remain in my chair all day if I felt like it.

9. A factor that I think is underrated is the invention of stretchy, comfortable, expandable fabrics. Jeans in the 1980s were heavy, rigid denim and if you gained a couple pounds, they were VERY uncomfortable and constricting. It usually served as a wakeup call that "hey, maybe I've been eating too much!" Clothing in general had no stretch and was much more structured, so you couldn't continue to cram yourself into your pants when you put on weight. In the mid-90's, I first started seeing jeans with some stretch in them, and by the early 2000's it was common to see people stuffing themselves into jeans that were a few sizes too small because the fabric was very accommodating. Also, in the '70s and 80's you just didn't wear athletic clothing unless you were exercising. It would have been kind of unthinkable to wear sweatpants or leggings to school, for example. It is rather ironic that with the rise in "athleisure" clothing, people became fatter and fatter.

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Dr. K's avatar

Kevin, Well this was fascinating, Will have to use it appropriately on both sides of this aisle. The question is, if the guidance is not the cause...what is?

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Jo Waller's avatar

D'ah! Everyone in medicine and health know that at best government guidelines are ignored and health campaigns are useless and at worst they make things even worse.

The problem of obesity seemed to start in the late 70s with introduction of convenience food and take aways. It has of course continued as governments bow to lobbying from big animal ag, big junk food and big pharma (who's cash cow is obesity) who actually want to keep us to be fat, sick and on drugs.

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Tom Kennedy's avatar

As an engineer, determining first order variables is crucial to understanding the problem and solutions. Diet and obesity is a complex chaotic problem with an almost infinite number of variables to consider.

An example is the effect of the change in light frequency that most westerners receive. Estimates are that most office workers (93%) receive very little red or near infrared light. Incandescent bulbs have been replaced by LEDs. Red and Infrared light have a profound impact at the cellular level and mitochondria.

I have no idea if lighting is a first order variable in the current obesity epidemic. Here's a typical article about this subject:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/red-light-therapy-for-weight-loss

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HenriO's avatar

Could the difference be caused by a higher consumption ultra- processed foods?

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Academentia's avatar

Aside from the clown show, what about RFK Jr.'s stated belief about food additives and chemicals and ultra processed foods. I would be interested to know what you think. Thanks. Dr.M.M.

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Mara's avatar

Food choice isn't the problem.

This is comparable to the gun control argument that firearms cause mass shootings.

Which are more often than not the result of chronic bullying, feelings of alienation, delusions, depression, desperation etc.

Guns merely enable the realisation of violent impulses stemming from underlying emotional and psychological issues. They reveal that there is a problem rather than being the problem in itself.

Another example would be fever, an attempt to resolve an infection that many mistake as being the problem. Attempts to stop the fever only make the underlying problem worse.

The obesity problem is caused by eating addiction. There is an underlying issue for which the food serves as a crutch.

It is no less than a direct result of the oppressive atmosphere that people are subjected to their whole life, from which eating provides a pleasant and warm distraction.

Just as some turn to video games, music, drugs, sex, social media, shopping etc.

There are, of course, massive advertising campaigns designed to convince people to buy things, including food.

The food is also made intentionally addictive, especially in America where sugar is added to everything.

But ultimately this only works if the consumer feels dissatisfied in the first place.

This is achieved by attacking the minds of children with social engineering and propaganda. But I digress.

Anyway, in the vast majority of cases it is very simple to lose weight. They need only stop eating.

While easy to say, it can be hard to do. They must overcome both feelings of hunger, and feelings of emptiness.

And often, ending one addiction will cause another to displace it. Leading to a kind of whack a mole until the underlying cause is identified and alleviated.

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Philosopher Newport's avatar

"The obesity problem is caused by eating addiction. There is an underlying issue for which the food serves as a crutch." --

"Anyway, in the vast majority of cases it is very simple to lose weight. They need only stop eating. While easy to say, it can be hard to do. They must overcome both feelings of hunger, and feelings of emptiness." --

"And often, ending one addiction will cause another to displace it. Leading to a kind of whack a mole until the underlying cause is identified and alleviated." --

I agree with those comments. I know someone who is fat and they seem to be eating something or other every hour. They eat 3 meals a day and in between meals, too. Basically, they eat about as often as I smoke (one cig per hour). They get fat, but I don't. I only eat one meal a day and have done so since I was 12. They get all sorts of aches & pains & illnesses & lumps & bumps, but I don't. I occasionally only experience a cold or flu -- and it serves me right. I eat what I want and smoke and toke and basically avoid fruits and water. My main source for hydration has been ginger ale for decades. No vitamin pills or supplements.

We can look at each person as an eternal entity who is living a temporary life-story that has been predetermined & scripted -- which means anything that looks wrong about their lives or bodies or personalities, isn't really a wrong meant to be righted. And yet for many, it may be an element in their story where they attempt to right the perceived wrongs. A yo-yo battle of resistance & relief -- famine & feast -- on the wagon, off the wagon -- binge & purge.

Everyone's story here, every living creature, contains shit & ice cream, comedy & drama, fear & violence, fortunes & misfortunes, and the story usually ends with an ugly death. What could be uglier and more humiliating than deteriorating into a condition where you are ugly to look at, you stink, can't sit or stand up or use the toilet, someone else has to wipe your ass, can't hold a fork or a conversation, and, perhaps, can't remember anything useful like the names of your children visiting you or how to swallow food?

In other words, for the most part, it all ends in tears here no matter how sanely or healthy or righteously you try to live.

My motto is >> I am damned if I do, and damned if I don't, and so I may as well do what I want and be damned for it than to deny myself these exclusively earthly, non-Heavenly pleasures and STILL be damned for it. (Ain't no titties or bacon or tobacco or marijuana in Heaven.)

Any "life" in a world where there is death is not a nice life from the very start. Nor is it the Real life. It's more akin to being just a fantasy. Just a way for eternal persons to pass the time throughout Eternity, the middle of forever.

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Jen Koenig's avatar

"The Japanese diet is a grain-heavy diet."

It's not, actually. A traditional Japanese diet is known for its emphasis on fresh, seasonal ingredients, balance, and variety. Here's an example of a typical day of eating in a traditional Japanese diet with an emphasis on the carbohydrate content. Keep in mind a traditional Japanese serving a rice was ½ a cup. Portions are typically smaller compared to Western diets, and there's an emphasis on enjoying a wide variety of flavors and textures. Half cup of cooked sushi rice typically contains around 22-26 grams of carbohydrates.

Breakfast: ~ 40 grams carb

Steamed rice (often short-grain white rice or brown rice).

Miso soup (fermented soybean paste soup) with tofu, seaweed, and green onions.

Grilled fish (such as salmon, mackerel, or sardines).

Pickled vegetables (such as tsukemono), often served as a side dish.

Natto (fermented soybeans) is sometimes included.

Lunch: ~ 35 grams carb

Bento box with a variety of components:

Rice or sushi rice.

Grilled or pan-fried protein (such as chicken, beef, or fish).

Stir-fried or steamed vegetables (such as broccoli, carrots, or spinach).

Pickled vegetables or a small salad.

Dinner: ~ 40 grams carb

Similar to lunch, but may include a wider variety of dishes:

Soup, such as clear broth soup with vegetables and tofu.

Rice or noodles (such as soba or udon).

Grilled, simmered, or stir-fried protein (such as pork, tofu, or shrimp).

A variety of side dishes, including pickles, salads, and simmered vegetables.

Green tea may be served with or after the meal.

According to the Dietary Guidelines for Americans, carbohydrates should typically comprise around 45% to 65% of total daily calories. For a standard 2,000-calorie diet, this translates to about 225 to 325 grams of carbohydrates per day. This is what is recommended, and we all know most Americans are eating more sugary and processed foods than the ADA recommends.

Traditional Japanese diet: ~ 115 carbs per day. Even if you consider this low, this is about half of the minimum recommendation for the American diet.

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Kevin Bass PhD MS's avatar

The United Nations FAO data indicate that the Japanese consume as much as 400 grams of carbohydrate per person per day. Data available for your perusal if you are so inclined.

Nutritional surveys indicate an intake of more than 200 grams of rice per person per day, alone, for example:

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/328

These numbers strike me as highly plausible. I have spent a great deal of time in Japan, my wife is Japanese, my children are half-Japanese, and so on.

Can you provide supporting data for your claims?

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Jo Waller's avatar

Nothing wrong with complex carbs!

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Len Kinder's avatar

Perplexity.ai says: Japanese dietary patterns are known for their high carbohydrate content, primarily from rice, noodles, and other grain-based foods. The UN data suggesting that Japanese people consume around 400 grams of carbohydrates per day is much closer to reality1.

Several factors support this high carbohydrate consumption:

Rice as a staple: Rice is a central component of most Japanese meals, often served multiple times a day.

Noodle dishes: Various noodle-based dishes like ramen, udon, and soba are popular and frequently consumed.

Traditional diet: The traditional Japanese diet has historically been high in carbohydrates, with rice playing a significant role.

Government recommendations: The Japanese government's dietary guidelines recommend that 50-65% of daily caloric intake should come from carbohydrates.

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COMRADITY's avatar

The graphic designer industry is busy communicating the same way in so many different ways!

Maybe instead of telling the creative industry what to say, they should ask them to think about ideas that would provoke people to eat better!

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Tracy Kolenchuk's avatar

What happens when a case of obesity is cured? Nothing. Obesity cured is not medically defined. It is not possible to test for, much less to prove a case of obesity cured. What happens when obesity is cured with dietary changes? Nothing. Cured is not defined for dietary changes. What happens when obesity is cured by a carnivore diet? Nothing. Obesity cured cannot be proven. The carnivore diet is not a medicine. Only approved medicines can claim to cure. It might be surprising - if it were the only such disease. But no. Cured is not defined for any non-infectious disease, not defined for any nutritional disorder, not defined for any toxic exposer or poisoning. Cured is not defined for any cure of these diseases - because the cures are not approved medicines. Modern medicine has no interest in curing any disease. Nutrition that cures? Not important. Cured cases? Anti-important, negatively important.

to your health, tracy

Author: A New Theory of Cure

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KENNETH PETERSON's avatar

Are you missing the effects of endocrine disruptors added to American food products that are not found or allowed in the same products sold abroad?

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Len Kinder's avatar

I haven't checked to see if anyone corrected your statement that the Earth revolves on or around its axis, but I figure it may be worth mentioning. What the Earth does is rotate on its axis. And it revolves around the Sun. Apparently, both its rotation and its revolution were formerly unrecognized.

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Kevin Bass PhD MS's avatar

Yes

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Marie Clausen's avatar

Hello! The biggest culprit is processed sugar. We’ve heard it hundreds of times. Of course other highly processed ingredients come with it. My wake-up call came last New Year’s Eve day when — at the urging of two relatives— I watched (twice!) “That Sugar Film” on Amazon Prime (premise:what would happen if I ate only diet foods for 60 days?). Afterward, I declared I would do a 60-day experiment where I limited my sugar intake —no processed sugar. I followed his general suggestions —he showed his normal diet — and in 6 months, despite having a knee replacement and the obvious mobility issues that prevented exercise both before and after, I lost 30 pounds. Obviously, 60 days turned into 90, then 120….I’ve since lost more but have recently allowed my sugar-addict brain to fool me into believing I can control my sugar intake. I’m back on track now, eating better, feeling better, thinking and sleeping better. I have about 35 pounds to go before considering this my greatest success and a lifetime of being obese is in my rear view mirror.

I urge everyone reading this to watch the documentary. It’s brilliant!

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Keith Coolidge's avatar

This is a great video on two doctors that have saves my life

https://youtu.be/sVfyf9B5HIs?si=wjmjzVPYnSApn3XX

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Keith Coolidge's avatar

Sorry the thumb didn’t get the spelling right.

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Rememberer's avatar

You are over the target when identifying the problem as over-eating and lack of exercise. Yeah, everyone knows that -which shows knowledge is not the problem. A greater availability and affordability of great tasting instant food is certainly a contributor -but I wouldn’t want the government to “solve” that.

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Iris Weston's avatar

Your own proposition sounds eminently reasonable; I'd say attention to diet in general may not solve the problem right away but it can sometimes create a positive domino effect: as you become more aware and awake in your daily life, start cooking, figuring out what agrees with you and what doesn't, you do become healthier, as a rule.

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